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Mark Keleher: Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining Gray’s Monthly Webcast on the most recent Student and Employer Demand Trends in Higher Education. Our monthly webcast is derived from our program evaluation system that supports ongoing academic reviews at all types of institutions across the country.
Before I pass the baton over to our CEO, Bob Atkins, a couple of quick housekeeping items. Please feel free to share any questions with us in the chat window on the left-hand side of the page. We will be sure to answer all questions at the end of today’s webcast. Lastly, a copy of the presentation, as well as a recording, will be delivered to all registrants via email upon the conclusion of today’s webcast. Without further adieu, Bob.
Bob Atkins: Good afternoon, and thank you very much for the introduction, Mark. This is Bob Atkins; as Mark mentioned, I am the CEO of Gray Associates. Today I will be presenting out the results on Demand for Higher Education, both in terms of employment and student demand through November 2017.
Higher Education Consulting
Now, you might well ask who are we do that, so let me tell you a little bit about Gray and the data that we keep to help schools set their strategies, think about what programs to offer, where to offer them, at what price to offer them at, and then finally, we do some work on general business strategy projects and such.
We use a variety of data to support those decisions. First, of course, is Demographics from the US census. We have competitive data, which we draw primarily from IPEDS, so with that we can see who is offering what programs where, and how many completions they have every year, so you can check your market share.
We’ll talk about our student demand data in a moment. Same for employment. We also have good wage data; this comes from a variety of sources. One is the US Census, the long for of the Census, which is called the American Community Survey. Of course, we have BLS as well, and finally we have wage data from job postings. So, we have three different sources to give you a sense of how much someone can earn and we crosswalk all this data back so we can see what’s happening at a program specific level, so we look at wages and align them with academic programs.
We also have placement rates by programs. This is primarily for two-year programs and certificates. We get those from the web, from disclosure statements. School by school, program by program. And we’ve just added a new data set that I thought would be of interest and we now have good understanding of employer requirements, that is the capability students need, the specific tools they need to know and the skills they need to have, to meet employers’ expectations when they get hired. So that’s a brand-new data set, we’re very excited to be able to include some of that data on today’s call.
Agenda - Demand Trends in Higher Education
Now, let’s dive in and take a look at student demand. The source we’ll be looking at primarily today is from Inquiry Database, but we’ll also be looking a little bit of information from IPEDS and from our search database, which is pulled from Google.
Overall Student Inquiries (All Sources)
Let’s start with a National Data and here first I wanted to make sure everybody understands how to read our charts. The light blue bars in the background here show 2015, the darker blue bars are 2016, and the green bars are for 2017, and if you glance at the chart you can see unfortunately that the light blue bars are always taller than the dark blue bars, and the dark blue bars are always taller than the green bars, and that means that demand has been declining year over year for the last two or three years and I think if we went back one more year, it would have declined in 2014 as well.
There has been a long-term decline in inquires, in part because of a decline in demand and also because of a shift amongst marketers away from inquires and towards more organic search and other sources, social media and such. If we look at that and look at the trend for this year, we’re down 10.3% year to date. This month, like last month, the decline has slowed down a little bit. Last month we were down three or four percent, this month we’re down seven percent; that’s a considerable improvement from a 10% decline on average for the year.
Inquiry to Application: Overall Conversion Rates
Now, of course, an inquire is one thing, but what we really want is an applicant or even a student to start, so let’s look at who those inquires convert. There’s very good news on this front that offsets some of the decline and all of it in certain cases.
What we’ve got here is a 45% increase over our baseline quarter, which was Q1 2014, so the conversion rate is up considerably since then and you can see it’s on a fairly predictable upward trend that started back in Q3 2016 and it’s continued to Q3 2017, so it’s quite good news. People are buying better inquires and those inquires are as a result converting at a faster rate.
Overall Student Inquiry Conversions (All Sources)
What that nets out to is a 15% year-over-year increase in conversions. While inquires are down, that growth in the conversion rate has offset the decline and we’ve actually got an increase in overall conversions, and that increase has been in place every month this year except for February, so that’s really a very promising trend for the industry.
As we look forward to September, October, November, those months are not mature yet, but as they mature, they are almost certain to beat last year. October is already at last year’s level, September is very close, November’s got a ways to go but it’s also got three months to go to mature, so that’s actually a pretty good start for November.
For those of you who haven’t been on the webcast before, let me just take a moment and explain what a conversion is and why this timing matters. We count conversions in the month in which the inquiry took place. So a January inquiry that coverts in March is counted as a January conversion, and that’s why we talk about mature and immature months. It takes three months to get to about 80% conversion rates and it takes a full six months to get up to the maximum, so we take a midpoint there and talk about maturity after three months when the vast majority of inquiries will have converted, if they’re ever going to convert.
Just a footnote on that; that conversion rate has been stretching out over time, it’s taking longer and longer for students to make up their minds. If you went back a couple of years ago, it typically converted in three months, now we’re looking at six months for many of the conversions to take place.
Average Price for Pay-per-Inquiry
You might imagine that if we’re getting better conversions that we’re paying more for them, and if you did imagine that, you’d be right. The price of a conversion has been going up, it’s now at $45.90 after hovering around $45.00 for quite some time, and it looks like it’s about to go to $46.00. It’s not a dramatic increase, it’ up 2.2% but still, it’s an increase in expense for acquiring students that’s worth keeping an eye on.
Student Inquiries: 10 Largest Inquiry Budgets
Now, what are people spending on? Here we can see that the programs with the largest inquiry budgets, the largest being medical assistant, this has also been one of the largest programs in the United States; it’s a one-year certificate program typically, sometimes an associate program, but increasingly, rarely an associates program because it creates problems with gainful employment.
If we look at Business Administration and Management, not surprisingly that’s number two. Then we get some interesting mixes between what I would think of as more classic education programs and trades programs, so Medical Office Assistant, which we’ll come back to throughout this presentation, is third in terms of budget. Psychology is fourth and then we see, which is I think more of a general education program.
Then we get a bunch of trades following that: Medical Insurance Coding, Healthcare Management, HVAC Maintenance, Medical Insurance Specialist, Web Design, Multimedia and Accounting. This list for inquires tends to be dominated by trades; there is the occasional more general education program that does get sprinkled in here with psych.
Student Inquiries: Budget Spending for 10 Largest Programs
In terms of what’s changing, Medical Insurance Coding Specialist actually has the fastest growth, followed by Medical Office Assistant, and then interestedly, I mentioned that Medical Assisting is one of the biggest programs but it’s also one of the fastest decliners here dropping 22%; and Accounting and Bookkeeping and Business Administration also down well over 20%, each of them.
Agenda - Demand Trends in Higher Education
Now, let’s take a look at the difference between online and on ground.
Inquiries for Online Programs
First thing is, is that November online inquires are actually up 2%, so that’s a pretty substantial negative implication for on ground if you think about it because if this is up 2% and the average is down 7%, we got a problem over in on ground and we’ll share that with you in just a moment.
Student Inquiry Conversions for Online Programs
We look at conversions and most of our conversion growth actually did come from online; they were up 17% in conversion volume and you can see it’s been up strongly every month this year. Double digit increases in every month from January through July, so conversions in online are very, very healthy. It looks as though that will continue; September, October and November are looking fairly good. September and October very strong, November is off to a weak start, so we’ll have to keep an eye on that.
Inquiries for On-Campus Programs
Let’s look at on campus and unfortunately that’s a less rosy picture. Inquires for on campus programs dropped 20% year-over-year and they’ve been down every month this year.
Student Inquiry Conversions for On-Campus Programs
If we look at conversions, fortunately the improvement in conversion volumes narrows that gap substantially but still we’re down 6% in conversions and that’s better than 20% decline in inquires but still not healthy. We’ve been down every month this year so far, so demand for on ground programs does appear to be declining, at least at single digit rates. September, October, November, also are doubtful; it looks to me as though they’ll come close but none of them will probably reach last year’s levels.
Agenda - Demand Trends in Higher Education
Now, let’s take a look at how this data varies by degree level.
Inquiry Volumes by Degree – Year-Over-Year Change
Here we’re looking at quarterly data. We’re getting a very interesting trend over the last few months as the higher-level degrees are doing better than lower level degrees. Doctor’s and Master’s up 3% and 7% respectively, Bachelor’s up 24%, and our lower level degrees, Undergraduate certificates and Associate’s down 17% and 30% respectively. Anything past the Associate is doing relatively well, Associate’s and below is relatively poorly.
Agenda - Demand Trends in Higher Education
As we switch gears and look at the data by city, now we’re looking at the five largest cities in the United States, that’s largest in terms of inquiry volume to see what’s trending in each of those cites.
Student Inquiries: The Big 5 Cities
Overall, we’re down, and we’re down in every city. Chicago did better than last month, down 12%. Our other five cities are actually down worse than last month, down 8% in Las Angeles, 8% in Philadelphia, 11% in New York and 11% in Houston. We’ve got a pretty substantial decline and this has been true for a while in our largest cities that are causing much of the overall decline in the dataset itself.
The Big 5 Programs: November Growth
As we look at large programs, not a rosy picture here either. Business Administration down 2%, Medical Assisting down 5%, CJ down 5%, Registered Nursing down 12%; that’s intriguing, you don’t often see a decline in nursing, Business Administration down 20%. We’re got all five of our largest programs still trending down.
The Fast 5 Programs: The Higher Education Programs with the Fastest Inquiry Growth
In terms of fast growers, these are offsetting some of that decline; we’ve got very rapid growth in Human Services, up 84%, and all five of these programs are actually up 20% or more. Christian Studies is a new entrant on this list in the last couple of months, up 20%, Health Sciences 26%, Counseling Psychology 31%, Medical Insurance Coding up 41% and we’ll keeping looking at that program as we move through the presentation.
On Christian Studies, one of my hypotheses is that there is a growth segment in the industry that people aren’t yet focused on and that’s what I’ll call the Silver Segment. These are folks who are mature if you will but they’re well past what we would call the non-traditional student, you know, sort of a 34-year-old going back to take some courses to enhance their career. These folks are actually nearing or are past retirement age and they want to study things for really their own personal enrichment. When we analyzed inquires to see what skews there were by age group, we found that this group was particularly interested in religious studies. That may be part of what’s underlining this 20% growth in Christian Studies, is the emergence of a new segment.
Agenda - Demand Trends in Higher Education
Now let’s talk about programs that are growing most rapidly in two of our data sources.
The first of these we’ll look at is IPEDS, and what we find, we looked at the largest program in IPEDS and this is looking at completion volumes, very comprehensive dataset, every college and university in the United States accepts [inaudible - 0:14:07] and they have to report out their completions for all their academic programs.
Business, as you would expect as some level, is the biggest program and Business-related programs take five slots out of the top 20. Associate’s in Business, Accounting, Finance and Marketing/Marketing Management all make the top 20 list when you look at IPEDS.
Now, one thing that surprised me is Liberal Arts actually takes seven slots. You’ve got a raft of very large programs in the Liberal Arts itself at 278 and much of what’s going on here is we’ve got folks completing that degree, potentially at the two-year college level and going on to take something else at the four-year level, but that is still a very large program by itself.
Psychology makes this list as well as our earlier one. General Studies, 108. English Language and Literature, this one I was delighted to see in the top 10, it is extremely hard to find people who can actually write an English sentence, so it’s good to see that somebody is still studying that out there.
Speech Communication and Rhetoric at 42. Political Science and Government, 41,000 completions. Economics 41,000 and Sociology at 37,000. So, we’ve got a very healthily representation of the traditional liberal arts orientated programs in the top 20.
Then we get to some other sorts of things in Health and Human Services. Registered Nursing and Social Work in particular, Registered Nursing making it as the third largest program in the US with 237,000 completions. Finally, we finish out fortunately with a mishmash of other things. We do have a single science that made it into the top 10 with Biology. It’s interesting that with all the talk about stem that there’s no other science that made it into the top 20. Then we got Mechanical Engineering that makes the list, Law and Sociology, and that rounds out our total list. I think CJ is one other that we hadn’t bumped into before, Criminal Justice with 44,000 completions.
Student Demand: Google Search
Now, what I think is interesting is this is a different chart and now we’re looking at the largest programs in terms of Google Search. And I would’ve expected this to be largely the same as the chart we just looked at, which is Completions. What you find is that people are searching for very different programs than we see when we look at completions.
I call your eye here to the orange bars; the second one down is Cosmetology, obviously a career oriented program, very short program, but 1,309,000 searches so far in Q3. It’s right up there, it’s getting to be a [inaudible – 0:17:07] it’s certainly not there yet and I wouldn’t anticipate much growth. Commercial Truck Driver makes the list in orange. Welding makes the list. Culinary Arts and Dental Hygiene, and what we’re seeing is that when people search and they’re thinking about an occupation, they search by program and that causes our more occupational programs to come to the top of this list.
For folks who pick a college first, my hypothesis is that they search for a college not for a program and therefore the programs that we see when we looked at the IPEDS data, are considerably different than the programs we see when we look at search data. That’s not to say that one of these is right or wrong, I think they just highlight different groups of students and different search patterns, and as a result, I think when you’re evaluating programs, you really need to look at both sources, because they highlight different aspects of the market.
Let me call your eye to one more thing on this because it is consistent with the IPEDS data, and that is, about fifth from the bottom there’s a purple bar for Bible/Biblical Studies, so that fits I think with Christian Studies we saw earlier as an emerging area where there’s increasing interest, whether that’s in terms of completions or in terms of search.
Agenda - Demand Trends in Higher Education
Now I’d like to focus on one program for a few minutes and just talk about what’s going on with Medical Insurance Specialist.
Program Scorecard: Student Demand
What we’ll see here is screens from Gray’s Program Evaluation System and we’ve broken those down to make them legible and I’ll walk through them so you can understand what the numbers represent.
On this particular chart we can see part three different metrics for student demand: Inquires, Google Search and Completions. Within those we have a variety of metrics that evaluate the size of the program and the growth of the program.
The first number we see in dark green at the top with a red circle around it, is total inquiry volume. You’ll notice the background there is in dark green, that’s both to keep our reds and greens together for the holidays but also because that particular program, it ranks in the top 2% of all programs that we keep track of. We have about 1,400 programs in our system and at 222,000 inquires, this is one of the 28 highest volume programs in our system.
That would tell you the program is big and that’s confirmed by Google Search, not quite at the same level, 95th percentile, it’s a little bit lighter green and Completions said it’s bit but again, not quite as big as either search or inquires. It has 11,000 completions but that’s only at 90th percentile. I think it’s fair to assume this is big; it’s not clear if it’s one of the biggest programs or just a big program.
As we dig in a little bit further, you’ll notice there are a number of numbers here in orange or red and those are more concerning. In the inquiry side it’s still a good news story at 101,000 new inquires, we’re up 83% and that puts us in the 95th percentile in terms of unit growth and the 83% there is about the 70th percentile in terms of percentage growth.
But Google is down sharply, dropped 47,000 inquires in this quarter. Quite worrisome, down 21% year-over-year. The unit change is down, for completions is down 1,600, which is a 13% decline in year-over-year completion volume. What we know at this point is that it is a big program but its growth is very uncertain. The sources are in conflict and there’s no real way to know which one is right. We do know completions are quite a lot older than either search or inquires. The person would have decided to take this program one to three years ago.
That’s because the data is from 2016, the most current IPEDS and then somebody who completed would have made their mind up a year or two before that when they started the program. So we could look at it and say, “Well, the inquires are more current and Google’s more current.” But those two are in conflict as well, so you really end up walking away saying, “I know it’s big but I don’t know how fast it’s growing and there’re pretty big disparities between the datasets.” That’s really as much as you can learn about the current trend in the volume for that program.
Program Scorecard: Competition
Now, competition is bit of a different matter. You look at this screen and the first thing that strikes me is I’ve got a lot of orange and pink on it. The first number in orange is total in institutions. There are no less than 517 institutions teaching this particular program, that’s in the 40th percentile or that is to say it’s one of the most competitive programs out there, and there’s few other programs that would have as many schools teaching them. Interestingly though that number is down by 23, so competition is actually declining in this segment, and inquiry costs are good at 46.
Then I’m going to take your eye down to the competitive index from Google which is in pink and that’s at 0.72, this is an index that goes on a 0 to 1 scale, with 1 being most competitive, so at 0.72 is a pretty competitive program from Google’s standpoint, which is worrisome.
Down towards the bottom the other important thing here is the program is really making its way online. We’ve got 96 institutions teaching it online and 30% of all completions are coming from online sources, so if you were thinking of launching this on ground, you’d have strong competition not just from other competitors in your market but from online competitors who may be coming from anywhere in the United States.
Program Scorecard: Employment and Fit
Now, let’s look at employment; there’s a bit of a complicated chart but at the very top you can see Job Posting, there are 41,000 of them. That in the light green color puts it in the 90th percentile, so it’s a very healthy job posting volume. A little bit further down you can see the unit change in pink, not so good, down 48,000, so while it’s a big program it may be in decline.
Now I’m just going to touch a couple of other numbers here, in particular wages. We’ve got a low wage level at 22, you can see it in pink. That’s a BLS 10 percentile wage and Gainful Employment is below that with a wage of $20,656, so the wages for this field are troubling. This would have to be a very short program and very inexpensive program, not to run into trouble with Gainful Employment.
Then we have the National Percent of the Workforce and what that helps to tells us is what degree level is needed in order to get a job. This is also a troubling statistic, 25% of the people who have this job, have no college experience, which suggests that a higher education degree in this may be an expensive deal, a big of a luxury. With 36% of certificate and 19% with an associate’s, it’s not unnecessary but there is a way to get into this without it. There may be high school vocational education programs that teach this or institutions that are simply willing to train their own people. It’s not a compelling degree in terms of the requirement for a college education and the associated debt.
I’ll draw your eye to one last number that we have which I think is interesting, which is the NHEBI numbers at the very bottom of the screen. This is a benchmarking study run by The National Higher Education Benchmarking Institute out of Johnson County. It collects data from 350 different community colleges and then compares that data college to college, and in our case, it creates an index that shows how expensive it is to teach this program relative to the other programs that they cover. This one is in the 93rd percentile, so it’s below average, 1.0 is the index average. While it has its other issues, it’s a relatively inexpensive program to teach.
Medical Insurance Specialist: Job Postings
Now let’s turn in more depth to the job market. First, job postings. As we mentioned earlier, they are down. Compared to 2016, we’re off from 149,000 to 119,000; it’s unlikely at this point that we’ll catch up to that 2016 number. We got one month left and maybe we’ll pick up another 10,000 or 20,000 but we’re not going to pick up another 30,000 jobs, so I think demand for this field is on a down trend.
Medical Insurance Specialist: Salary
Salaries are really quite interesting. There’s a pretty broad distribution here. I mentioned at the outset that many of these folks get paid less than $35,000; that’s confirmed when we look at the data from the inquires, we’ve got 11,000 folks earning less than $35,000. What’s intriguing though is that some of these people are actually making quite a lot more. We’ve got a handful here at the very top making $75,000 or more per year, so it’d be interesting to dig in a little bit further and see what kinds of jobs are offering that for a relatively low skilled position.
Medical Insurance Specialist: Education (Minimum Advertised)
Now, the most frequently cited education. You can, consistent with our earlier chart, high school is enough for many employers, though there are folks looking for an Associate’s or a Bachelor’s Degree for this particular position.
Medical Insurance Specialist: Employer Requirements
You might well ask, what does the Medical Insurance Specialist really do? And the reason to ask that from an educational standpoint is, what do I have to teach them to do? Logically enough, they spend a lot of their time processing medical records. And in general, if you look down this list, records of one type or another are by far the most frequent skill, whether it’s maintaining personnel records, medical facility records or patient medical records.
Medical Insurance Specialist: Tools Employees Need to Know
Then we get to tools they need to know. These are typically data processing tools and the number one tool of course is the HCPCS software that actually is what folks code this stuff in. The next, interestingly enough, is Excel and Word. And this is true for most programs we look at, as you are teaching them the specific skills required for that field, it’s very important that people learn Microsoft Office; that’s Excel, Word, PowerPoint and potentially Access, the database, because almost all jobs require proficiency in those basic tools. This is no exception, as I mentioned, Excel and Word are number two and three.
Further down the sheet, you can see in green Microsoft Access, followed by Microsoft Office, which is of course the same programs mentioned in a different way, and Microsoft PowerPoint. If a person isn’t proficient in Office software, they’re going to miss a lot of the requirements for this job, no matter how good they are with the detailed more medical and coding aspects of it.
Competitors: Medical Insurance Specialist
You might well ask, who’s teaching this? And, who would I be up against for competition? In general, you’re going to be facing off against for profits. If you look at this list, the majority of schools on here are for profits, the high end of this list.
You have a couple of private not for profits but very few, Ivy Tech of public is third with 209 completions in 2016 but they’re really very few others. You got Everett Community College with 81 most of the way down the list. Business as space at the private for profits have kicked off and are taking most of the top slots in terms of volume of completions.
And I thought you’d enjoy just seeing the overall scorecard for the program. This makes my way of analyzing it quite easy. I look for greens and pinks. My thinking is green is good, pink is bad, and that allows me to not deal with every single individual number. For those of you who don’t know this already, I’m a history major, so dealing with every number is not necessarily my favorite thing.
You can get that sense that demand is generally green. I’ve got a couple of issues there in pink, on growth as we talked about. I’ve got almost all orange and red under competition, which we mentioned is a concern. The employment numbers, again, pinks and blues and orange, so not very encouraging on that side in terms of employment growth and wages. And then finally, we’ve got some good news on cost.
I only bring this up because we’ve found that a one-page summary like this, while it’s a little busy and hard to interpret it at first, is very helpful to people when they’re trying to make decisions about programs. It allows them to compare one program to another relatively quickly and it gives them all the information they need about the program in one place.
As you work with them over time, you get better and better at interpreting them, so what seems busy at first becomes logical as you do it a few times. And if you’re analyzing programs, most likely you’ll be looking at dozens or even more whenever you do it, so having a consistent way of doing it is very important.
Agenda - Demand Trends in Higher Education
Now, let’s summarize what we found today.
Key Demand Trends and Observations
First, the decline in total inquires slowed. We have been trending down at 10%, this month we’re only down 7%. Conversion rates and conversions continue to rise. Rates are up 45% versus our benchmark and conversions actually rose 15%. Prices for inquires are rising as well, not such good news, up 2.2% in November. Online programs are really driving most of the improvements. Inquires for online programs grew 2%. Conversions are up 17%. On ground, very different story, it continues to decline, it declined fairly fast. Inquires for on ground fell 20% and conversions dropped 6%. While it’s an improvement over the last month, it is still nothing to write home about.
Then I think a key point here is that good market analysis needs to use several data sources, because each one of them will illuminate different sectors. As we talked about, the largest programs in IPEDS are quite different from Google’s. IPEDS is going to tend to include more college-first decisions, Google data emphasizes more occupation first decisions, and to really understand what’s going on in a market, you need both, and in fact we would argue the inquiry data as well because it too illuminates a slightly different part of the market and would give you a different answer in terms of both size and growth.
For those of you who join us next month, I will share what the fastest growing programs are, in terms of both IPEDS and Google search volume. And it’s pretty interesting, there’s a dramatic difference between IPEDS and Google’s in terms of growth as well.
Questions and Contacts
That wraps up our webinar for this month. I hope you enjoyed it. Please send any comments you have to me, I always read them and would welcome them. If you stay online you can go and get the results of the webinar, the whole presentation and download it. It also will give you an opportunity to post any comments or questions you may have.
Now, let me pause there and say for questions, we’re game to take them now. If there are any questions out there, please feel free to enter them. Mark, what’s the technique for putting a question in?
Mark Keleher: There’s a chat window on the left-hand side of the screen where you can just drop your questions in there, we’ll be happy to take them as they come. But to get us started, do we have the -- how institutions or people get access to the program scorecards like you shared with medical insurance specialist for other programs in the markets?
Bob Atkins: Well, of course this is the self pitch part of the presentation. We have a software, sort of a service solution we call Our Program Evaluation System and within that we have scorecards for all 14,000 IPEDS programs, and we actually customize those scorecards for your particular market. We can also add a custom scoring system to it, so you’re seeing your priorities highlighted in your particular markets, and you can do that for every program offered in IPEDS.
Mark Keleher: Perfect, thanks for that. We have one specific question about the rose in Christian Studies. Do you remember, was that at the undergraduate level or graduate level, or both?
Bob Atkins: I believe the inquiry data is highlighting undergraduate. On the other side of it, I don’t know, we’ll check that out. If you want to email us that question, we will actually get back to you, we’ll be able to tell that certainly on the completion side right away.
Mark Keleher: Perfect. We’ll maybe pause for a few more seconds here and wait for any additional questions to come in. As Bob mentioned, the slides from today’s webcast are downloadable on the upper right-hand corner of the screen and the post meeting survey and we will also email them out with a link to the recording from today’s webcast as well to potentially share with your other colleagues. I do not see any additional questions.
Bob Atkins: Alright. If not, then I would strongly encourage all of you to join us in January and we’ll have another webinar. As I mentioned, one of the things we’ll be including there is the fastest growing programs in terms of Google Search and IPED, so that should be interesting. Last but not least, I hope all of you have a wonderful holiday season and we look forward to rejoining you in January.
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